The AI Engineer’s Guide to Raising VC — Dani Grant (Jam), Chelcie Taylor (Notable)

Leave 100% armed and ready to go. So, starting a company, raising VC: when do you raise VC?

Always? When?

As early as possible.

As early as possible. How early?

When you need to scale.

When you need to scale. Well, let me ask you a question: do you need to have revenue to raise VC? Show of hands, yes. Show of hands, no.

Okay. I love that we're making this interactive, and I'm super excited to be here. I think what Dani said isright, and I think this group is already well ahead of other groups of folks. You do not need revenue to raise VC.

As you can imagine, most VCs—well, not all, I think maybe if you take a step back—there's obviously different types of VC funds, as you guys all know. There are definitely funds that are maybe multi-stage, later stage, who are going to be looking for certain things, like ARR growth, or ARR full stop.

But if you know the types of funds you're looking for, particularly I'd focus on pre-seed and seed funds. Those folks are well-versed in investing in companies pre-revenue and sometimes pre-product. They're really just going to be backing you. So the short answer is: you'reright, you don't need revenue to go out and raise a round.

So how about this? Show of hands, do you need to have a product to raise VC? Show of hands, yes. Show of hands, no. Spicy group, what do you think?

I feel like that was a lamp since I said itright before, but yes, you do not need a product either to raise VC capital. I'd say the most important thing, which I think a lot of folks know in this room, but maybe if you don't: at the earliest stages, what investors are banking on is you as a founder, the team that you can bring around you, the team that you can ultimately recruit, but importantly, the vision that you have for what this company can be.

When you're investing at pre-seed and even seed, a good investor knows that the outcome in, say, 7, 10 years, that product's going to look dramatically different than what you came in and pitched them at the moment. So I'd say what I would overemphasize on, rather than do I have the perfect product, because again, the likelihood that that product works and is going to be sustainable across multiple cycles is unlikely, I'd really focus on what is it about me, my team, and my core abilities to kind of see a unique insight in the market, versus being hyper-obsessed with having this perfect, beautiful product on day one.

What about this: do you need to leave your full-time job to raise your first round of VC? Who thinks yes?

It's such a show of the state of the market that only a couple people hesitantly were like, yes, you do need to be full-time to raise millions of dollars. Who thinks no? And?

I actually think that's a little bit more mixed. I think it's going to be firm-dependent, for sure. I think there's a lot of firms that are comfortable with folks who are like, look, I'm out of a reputable tech company, I'm not ready to make the jump, but I've been working on this as a side project, here's what I've done, and this is why I want this funding to kind of take that leap.

I would say, however, if everything about venture capital is—and again, you should not be only building a company for VCs, I should say that first—but if you are raising from VCs, it's helpful to understand their psychology. What we're doing is we're trying to back, obviously, companies that can return funds.

And as a result, we want people who have tons of conviction about what they're doing. And so one way to have a signal of conviction is you left your full-time job. So again, everything is going to be partner and company-specific, but I would definitely say it's never a bad thing if you've decided to leave your company and go fully in on building the business.

I'm going to say something a little spicy, which is: when we raised, we were pre-product, my co-founder had not yet left his job, and so everything was potential. When we did our first conversations with VCs, it was all, we're about to do blank, we're going to show you a prototype, but it was very early.

And I think it was a lot easier for us to raise our round when everything is potential versus it actually took us a really long time to build a product that's so wow that a VC would have joined the call and been like, that is wow, let's go.

And so

the earlier you can go, the better. And one way you can do that is raise before you're raising. So who has heard ask for advice, get money, ask for money, get advice? I think there's something true to that, where people want to be part of something.

And the earlier you bring someone in, the more a part of it they are. And so when you start reaching out to say, I'm about to do blank, I'd love to get your advice, or I think it can lead to conversations so you can raise without raising.

Who thinks you need to have a co-founder to raise VC?

Everyone'sright.

For the most of the businesses we back have co-founder relationships. There are unique cases where there's a solo founder, so I wouldn't say never, but yes, typically co-founder is standard.

So, okay. So when to raise VC, what's the first step? What do you do?

Pitch. Okay. How do you get to a pitch?

Solve the problem.

Solve the problem. Okay, have a company. What else?

Find someone in an elevator. And what if you live in a one-story building?

What's the first step?

Get a new project employee.

Sorry?

Getting off your boat, great, and starting a new building.

Yeah, okay. Yes. Yes. You need something that you're starting.

Cold email.

Cold email. So the best, of course, is not a cold email,right? It's a warm intro. But most engineers don't know VCs. And so what do you do if you don't have a network? So how many people here think that VCs read cold emails sent to them?

Do you read cold emails sent to you?

I do. So this is, again, I think the intuition is correct here. VCs, like anyone who has capital to sell, I suppose, is getting a lot of emails and getting inundated. However, it is also my job to hunt for deals,right?

So I am a salesperson, just like any other go-to-market person, but I'm trying to sell money that I have to amazing entrepreneurs. So I definitely read cold emails, and I'm sure we'll go into these examples. What I will say is the cold emails that actually get answered by myself, and I actually surveyed my team across other kind of investment categories, they're usually cold emails that are prompted by some kind of warm signal.

So it's exactly the same playbook you would see in any type of go-to-market process,right? So I'm constantly, for example, on LinkedIn, putting out content probably twice, three times a week on topics I'm thinking about, very early ideas. This is me as a signal to say, hey, I'm in this space of ideation, I want to talk to smarter people than me.

So the entrepreneurs that reach out to me in those moments, saying like, hey, I'm building something somewhat relevant, are you willing to spend 15 minutes to chat, I'd love to share ideas, I almost always reply and hop on the phone.

Versus waiting and then saying, I'm running a processright now, that's much harder. So I think what Dani is suggesting isright. Getting in early, having casual conversations, making it much more relationship-building, I think actually yields the outcomes folks want.

Oh, listen to music.

The country music is for us, because what we're saying is very heartfelt.

Yeah. It's like we sing music.

So

Chelcie shared with me actual cold emails she has received, and we're going to share them with you. So I'm curious who here would answer this DM, which is, hi, it was great meeting you at blank, I asked you this question, my co-founders and I are taking time off from this company to build this thing, we've built out an MVP and started beta testing, I'd love your take on our go-to-market, and if it feelsright, any pointers to other investors, do you have 15 to 20 minutes to chat?

Who here would answer? Who here would not answer? Actually, no one raised their hand for not answering. This is an answer. What makes this so good?

Do not ask for a lot of content.

Okay.

Yeah, and I'd also say they have a very specific ask. They want to talk to me about go-to-market, and they want to talk to me about any pointers on either what my feedback is. I'm not a consumer investor, they know that, so they're like, could you give me pointers on a consumer investor I could know?

And so it feels very tangible for me. I know exactly going into this response, okay, they want to talk to me about 15 minutes, I can go in advance thinking about what I'm going to help them with. I think the challenge in cold outreach is keeping it very vague.

Oftentimes, again, it just does and again, I don't mean to say things people already know. It's like anything in go-to-market. You just want to be hyper-specific so the person immediately knows when they reply what they're going to get from you and what they can expect in that conversation.

One of our VCs says to us, don't think selling in email, think be compelling. The job of the email is not to make the sale, it's just to compel a response, because then you get the opportunity to make the sale.

And so one mistake we've made as founders is trying to put the whole pitch up front, because being like, look at this thing we're building, here's everything you should know about it that should compel you, actually is just like, who likes long emails?

And what's better is just to give enough to compel the reason to answer. Okay, what about this one? So here's a link to a blog that you all have written at Notable. Enjoyed reading this, and this is exactly why I have built blank.

Would love to chat, here's a link to the GitHub. Who here would answer this?

Would anyone actively not? Okay, interesting.

So this is really funny, because we actually led the Series B in this company. But this email came when he was still at the seed round, but we tracked it for multiple years. So the reason this one was compelling is, as I mentioned, we're constantly in market hope.

As much as it may appear, and I don't know if this is totally true, but it may appear that VCs are just putting things out in the ether and they expect no one to really read it. We do, and we really hope that people read it and give us tangible feedback.

Because again, I'm just trying to ideate and figure out what's happening, but there are people on the ground like yourself who know so much more than me. So when someone actually engages and says, oh, this thing I read in your article actually is relevant to what I'm literally quit my job to buildright now, and I'm going to send you the GitHub so you can take a look, that I'm serious, that to me illustrates again, okay, someone at the very least that is thinking about things similar to me, someone that I should spend some time with, even if their company today is not theright business for me to invest in.

Two other quick examples. This went to one of Chelcie's colleagues, hey, loved your post, you might find the one I did a while back on this topic, interesting, would love to hear what you think. This led to a round?

This also led to a round, which is funny.

Isn't that crazy? It says nothing about their startup.

Yeah.

Which I think Dani is pulling out good points. As much as it may appear that you want to really sell the business, and we've already said this before, again, a lot of the VC relationship in the early days is about information sharing and gathering and less about pitching.

And so exactly, this person didn't even really tell us what they were doing, and we did also invest in their company.

One last one. Wow, this thing you said is exactly the reason, the thesis that we founded our company on. I am genuinely excited to have a conversation with someone who has clearly been thinking critically about this space. Who here would respond to this?

Y'all are a little shy, but there are a lot of hands. Anyone actively would not respond?

I think the conscious.

No one,right? And why?

I think in this case, again, and maybe these I could have found maybe a little bit more unique ones, but I think this is one where you, as an investor, want to go in and talk to folks who are thinking and talking about the same topics as you.

And so it was clear this person did their research, they wanted to talk, and they were building a company in the space. And again, I want all of my conversations to be super productive, I want to leave and have you feel like you learned something too.

And so this kind of email illustrates that, okay, we're going to start from a baseline of understanding on what we care about.

Yeah. So you send an email, you get a meeting,

what happens in the meeting? What do you imagine the pitch meeting is like? What happens in it?

You do it up a Jenga tower.

Yeah. A Jenga tower metaphorically?

What happens?

You ask for your thesis.

Okay. Yes?

In order to know if we have some money.

Yes. So you pitch, essentially.

Yes.

But what is it like?

I feel the first pitch is still relationship building, it's about what you're interested in, the problem space, and just getting to know each other. I feel a lot of pitching in the first.

Imagine that we gave all of you some amount of money to go invest in a couple of founders, and you're like, cool, money to go invest. So you start meeting with founders. What would you want to what would you want these meetings to be like?

What would you want to hear to be excited about someone, to give them some of your limited amount of investment capital?

Why you, why now?

Why you, why now? So I was asking Chelcie before this talk, what are the biggest mistakes that AI engineers especially make in pitches? And the top thing she said was, engineers are so good at technology, so they over-focus on it.

But as an investor, I want to hear why you, why now?

1,000%, that's the exact answer. Again, I don't want to negate the importance of technology,right? We're building software, you need to have strong technical abilities, you need to build a really strong product. But in the early days, what I'm betting on is vision, and I'm betting on you.

And so I want to hear, and typically what works very well is, I want to hear why you have a unique insight about the market, or you have a unique insight about go-to-market, or you have a unique insight about product, or you have a unique insight about a customer segment.

Because again, there can be tons of companies that are doing the same thing, but there will always be one, typically, or multiple, that are going to win, and they're going to win for very unique ways. And so to get kind of that asymmetric outcome, I have to really believe that you're thinking in untraditional ways.

And so that's what the pitch I'm looking for. I'm often asking questions and trying to poke to see, is this a founder who's thinking about things in a very unique way, and is telling me why their unique perspective is grounded by some expertise they have from their lived experiences, or something they read, or something they saw, et cetera.

What does a good answer look like? How does someone do that in a way where you're like, wow, got it, I get why them?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I'd say probably the best way to do this is to usually start the pitch, grounding it in what is the core problem that you've identified that exists in the world today, that either people already know, and if they already know it, and you know that it's a well-known problem, then beginning to explain to them what got you to the point of seeing why your unique approach could be different.

So for example, I'm trying to a good example isright now, we've been spending some time in kind of the vertical AI application space, and in particular looking at voice AI agents. Everyone is very familiar with the idea that voice AI likely will drive automation, efficiency for industries where they really rely on phone calls.

That's pretty known. But what I think is interesting when we meet founders who are trying to go after, say, a different industry, there's things like, why is this vertical segment or industry more unique than another? Why did you choose to go after logistics and transportation versus after restaurants?

And if you chose one, why did you choose that? Why is that industry so interesting? Oh, there's really good kind of workflow, you can be embedded in the workflow here, oh, there's great data modes. Oh, you start unpacking in all of these layers of why a person has chosen a particular path.

And so it's actually not I wouldn't say it's even that bespoke, necessarily. I think it's really about kind of telling and someone said this earlier, it's about telling that narrative particularly well, such that when I end the meeting, I feel like, okay, you have a very cohesive vision around how this works.

And even if we, again, know the core problem is very well understood, that's okay. What we care more about is that you have identified something in that well-understood problem that you can tackle very well.

Okay, so you're meeting with founders, you're figuring out who you're going to invest in, what else do you want to hear in order to decide this is the person?

Return on investment.

Sorry?

Why do you need to know investment?

Return on.

You said return on investment?

Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Yes. So that was actually so I asked Chelcie what are the biggest mistakes engineers make when they start companies and pitch VCs. And so the first one was over-focusing on technology, under-focusing on the you and the now.

And the second is talking too much about what's happeningright now, but forgetting to pause and sort of share how this goes from what it is today to how this could be a billion-dollar company.

Exactly. And again, because we started this conversation saying you don't need revenue to raise, you don't need a product to even raise, there's no real reason to go so deep on either of those things in early pitches. What I would, again, focus on is why do you think that you can achieve kind of larger revenue milestones down the line?

Some ways to signal that would be, hey, I've spoken to X number of potential buyers, I have four of them raising their hand to be design partners, we're in very early ideation stages, but I'm guessing that maybe ACVs could look in this range.

So with that as an understanding, I'm thinking we could get this far. I think as Dani started with, thinking a lot about what's the potential, what does that next phase look like, is that exactly what folks are betting on.

And I think design partners in particular are a really great kind of anchor. And again, you don't have to have a product. And so maybe you're thinking, how am I going to get a design partner when I don't even have a company or a product yet?

So if you don't want to call them design partners, you can even say, I've done some customer interviews, I've done some research, having some of that stuff in your back pocket to say, hey, this is real evidence I've heard in market, this is not hypothetical, I'm making it up.

But people would spend this much, I think, again, gives you some opportunity to talk about potential, but then also, like you said, begin to help the VC craft a narrative of what return on investment could look like. How can I see this person basically scale this company to a phase where it could, again, return a portion of my fund or become a billion-dollar business?

When we went out to raise for the first time, Jam was so small. And because we tried to build an MVP, and so the question we always got from VCs is, why is this a product and not a feature?

Why is this company and not a feature? And so what they were really asking us was not that, they were asking us, what's the path from where you are now to a billion-dollar company? And so we always used to say, this is the first feature of our future product.

And then we would explain what the future product could look like and how it gets there. But I think that was helpful for being able to raise the round. Okay, what else do you want to hear in a meeting in order to give someone money?

If you did not enjoy the meeting, but they were smart, will you give them money? Show of hands, yes? Very few hands. In sales, you know how they say, in sales you are in the business of giving a good meeting?

When you go out to raise, you are selling. And so you are in the business of giving a good meeting. What's a good meeting?

Next steps.

Laughter.

Next steps.

There are next steps.

Focused.

You're focused.

Bidirectional.

Bidirectional. That one's huge. So one of the best pieces of advice that I got when we went out to raise is, oftentimes VCs will ask you something just to see if you've thought about it. And then the mistake founders make is then they talk for 10 minutes about it because there's a lot of information.

So if someone asks you about your go-to-market, instead of doing the whole go-to-market, you can say, we've thought about it a couple ways, happy to go into it more, most likely we do blank. And just let it be a conversation.

Totally. That's actually a great piece of advice. I would say that we are, again, I even alluded to this earlier, I'm constantly asking questions just to see how a founder is thinking about something. And so I actually, this week, we took a company to investment committee, and we asked the founder one of the partners asked the founder a question, and he literally said, I could make up an answerright now for you, but I don't want to do that, I want to be thoughtful.

And we all were like, whoa, that's amazing. That actually is the type of founder we would want to work with, because all of you are competent and smart enough to come up with any good, compelling answer on the fly.

But is that actually what you believe? Is that the path you want to take? Probably not. And so I'd say there's obviously moments in time where you want to, if it's a very basic or a question very related to your core business and you know the answer, obviously.

But I think feeling comfortable, as Dani is saying, making it bidirectional, pausing, asking the VC questions back, like, oh, why are you asking me this question? I'm just really keen to understand your thinking about this category. It actually can create a lot more engagement and then get you closer to the heart of what you need to be talking about.

And then one other thing I'll add, which I'm not sure if I'm previewing it too early, but I'll also say, when you're pitching, as Dani said, you want it to be pleasant, you want it to be exciting, but we're all human.

It's really hard to be pitching a person that you don't know, and also the power dynamic in some ways does feel a little bit warped. So I always say to founders, especially the ones I work closely with, maybe put some of your early pitches with funds that you know probably aren't going to work with you, or maybe you don't want to work a lot with them.

Put those at the front. Practice, get excited, get reps in, become really comfortable selling your story and getting those questions back so that when you go into those later pitches at the back half of the week, when you're like, oh, this could be my ideal partner because they're talking about my category, they do pre-seed, they love AI engineers, then you're totally ready and you know exactly what they're going to ask.

So again, I think it's all about making yourself comfortable and coming in with that sense of confidence.

So on that note, Chelcie, what can an AI engineer expect to be asked?

Great question. So it's going to range, obviously, but I think there's going to be a few core areas where we're going to really focus on. So one is, like I mentioned already, what is the problem that you're trying to solve, and why you, and in particular, as someone already alluded, why now?

Then we're going to want to dive into what is that solution, or at least broadly, what do you think that solution could look like? You don't need to have the product, you don't even necessarily need to have mock-ups, but we do want to hear from you of some cohesive narrative as to what I think this product could look like, and then how do I intend on keeping product velocity and iterating on the product to get me to a point where it is working and I think we can go to market more broadly with it?

We then are going to ask you about, who's your customer? What's your ICP? I'm sure you guys have all maybe heard that if you haven't, ICP is Ideal Customer Profile. Every VC will ask you this, and the idea is come in with a good sense.

Even if you don't know if that's actually it, you can say, we're thinking it's two ICPs, are we thinking it's three? This is how I'm going to test and learn to be able to really hone in and focus.

Then we're obviously going to ask you about, where do you think revenue goes for this? And so again, another way to back into these things, because most of your companies aren't going to have revenue, is to ask yourself and explain to the VC, so I don't know just yet how we're going to monetize the product, but I have a hypothesis that based upon conversations with customers, design partners, that they want to buy a product in this range, they're thinking that they want it to be seat-based, oh, actually they want it to be usage-based.

Start to use some of these words that also signal to the investor that you're thinking about different monetization models so that they can also give you feedback. They can say, oh, you know what, I've seen companies like yours who have tried this approach, this is typically the size deals they get.

And then now you can start building momentum with them to say, okay, this is where I think we can go from a revenue trajectory. And then there's obviously more, but the last one I'll talk about here, so as not to overwhelm, is team.

Team is so, so, so important, as everyone says. But being a VC and being on the inside, it is probably the most important thing that we do in the early stage. So do not overlook what your unique who you are as a person and the people that you can attract, how important that is.

So we will ask you, who are the first folks you want to hire? How do you attract them? Because we want people who can attract the best AI engineers. So if you know you have an amazing network of your friends who are also engineers at top companies, say that.

Say, I know five engineers from X company that I know would want to join me. Even if they don't join, it's okay. Talk about what you could do and how you can build that momentum of attracting the best people to your company.

So there's a longer list of things we ask, but I'd say those are the four or five core things.

We wanted to focus on what does a good answer because VCs hear 100 answers to every question, and so then you're kind of stack-ranked, was that a good answer or an okay answer? And so we want you to hear exactly what a good answer might sound like to a couple of questions that usually engineers don't get asked in their engineering roles.

So Chelcie, what does a good answer sound like when you're asked about competitors?

Great question. And yes, competitors, I didn't mention that, but obviously will be a very important question that we're going to ask you. So typically the best answers for competitors is, one, to acknowledge that there are competitors. Let's start there.

Whenever we go into a pitch and we ask competitors and the founder tries to convince me that there's no competitors, it doesn't usually end well. So I would say, acknowledge that there are likely competitors, even if you don't think they're exactly the same.

Then I would say, begin to, and it's often what folks will do is kind of, I guess, aggregate where competitors sit on a spectrum compared to themselves. You've all seen this. But I would say, really focus on that.

So you can maybe think of different axes in which your competitors work upon, and then help VCs understand why you're filling that white space that is different than those competitors. And then this all goes back to, like we said at the very beginning, why you, why now, what's your unique insight?

It's okay to acknowledge if you are building something in, I don't know, AI go-to-market, saying, okay, there's already tools like ZoomInfo that exist for data enrichment, but then Clay comes along and says, well, we think it's going to be different because we're going to aggregate the most data sources, and no one's been able to do that.

That actually was pretty compelling. They've raised a lot of money, they have a lot of momentum. So again, I think acknowledging competitors, level setting for people, how you see those competitors sitting in the market, and then how is your company in relation to that is typically the strongest answer.

One thing I've heard Chelcie say in the past is, as a VC, your job is to not only know all the competitors, but also to have talked to all of them. And so they know who they've had conversations with them.

And so if you try to hide it, suddenly you become a person that's untrustworthy to work with, versus acknowledging and saying, it's a really exciting space, a lot of people are chasing it, here's how we're doing it differently.

I'd also say, use it if the VCs, again, read the room with the VC, but like Dani said, I've likely met all the competitors when I'm meeting a company. So try to get information from me. The best founders ask, why did you like that company?

Or why did you pass on that company if you'd met them already? Help me understand, and I actually really like that question.

That's cool. How should an AI founder answer a question about go-to-market when they're raising their first round?

Yeah. So the best thing to do here is, again, because go-to-market is going to be very nascent, is to talk about your vision of what you think go-to-market could look like, and also provide some, I would say, some frameworks of how you're thinking about it based upon other companies that have similar models to you.

So for example, if you know that you're going to go after kind of a usage-based model, say, I think our company is going to follow a go-to-market, or I'm thinking more monetization, but maybe we're going to follow a PLG approach.

We want to follow other PLG companies like X, we think this is successful for Y, and we want to pursue this with these kind of tiers, understanding pricing's going to change a lot, but this is what we're directionally thinking of how it will work, and then ask for, how have you seen this work?

Do you work with a lot of PLG companies and get feedback? So I'd say, try to come in with some sense of what the motion will look like, have some directional sense of what you think pricing could look like, but then obviously then anchor it on, we need to experiment and test, versus saying that you're going to know exactly what it is.

We've been hijacked. We're unhijacked.

We're back.

Last question for you on this. What do engineers specifically, when they're pitching AI startups, tend to get wrong in the pitch meeting?

I think we've addressed a few of these points already, and so I won't belabor it. I think the biggest thing that I would recommend you not do is get so in the weeds around your particular product or technology.

I think it's super important, but typically what VCs will do is they're using the VC pitch meeting with the investor, unless you're meeting an investor who's highly technical, which do your research beforehand, but if you're meeting the average VC who's probably not super technical, what they're again betting on is person, vision, product, vision, future state.

And usually what we do at our firm is we set aside an entirely different hour session with our VP of technology to do a deep dive on the tech. So don't spend that first meeting where you're really trying to hook them and sell them on your vision going so deep on the technology that you never even talk about the vision, the go-to-market, the future.

So I'd say that's probably the biggest. And then the last thing I will say is, not using this time to really test if you want to work with them. I know it does feel like early on that you want to make sure you're just getting as much opportunities as possible and you just want to speak to VCs potentially.

But I just respect the founders who have a firm sense of, this is what I'm looking for. And when I ask them, hey, tell me what you're looking for and who you want to work with, they're like, these are the things I need to get to this next phase.

So you've just done your first pitch meeting, you're raising your first round, you've been through the whole meeting, and now the meeting is wrapping up, how do you end it? Do you ask about next step? What do you say?

Yes. If the VC is not asking next steps, definitely prompt them. Say to them, I really enjoyed this meeting, if you did, and if you want to work with them, and then ask them, what does your process look like?

Help me understand what I should expect over the next week, two weeks, month as we go through this process. And they'll walk you through their bespoke process, and then I would say, be prepared to provide materials. So we didn't talk about this, but at the pre-seed and seed stage, you don't necessarily need a full data room like you would at later stage rounds, but you should have some materials prepared and ready to send immediately after.

So exactly, you're going to want your pitch deck ready to send to them, and in that pitch deck, obviously include all the elements we said, but also include how much you're raising and what you're hoping to use that capital for.

Our original pitch deck is still online from 2020 when we raised our first round. It's at deck.jam.dev. So when you go out to raise, if you're like, what does just another example look like? You can reference it. We just haven't deleted the DNS rule on Cloudflare.

So I think there's something important. I think a lot of founders imagine when they go out to pitch that they're going to share the pitch deck during the meeting. But have you ever been in a meeting where someone shares slides?

You go into webinar mode, your eyes glaze over. And so in order to have a good meeting, I think you save the pitch deck for later, you send it afterwards. And the VC you met with probably isn't the one reviewing the pitch deck.

The pitch deck is the brochure for all their teammates. Are you saying time like wrap it up in one minute or like five minutes? Like yesterday. Okay, okay. That's all we got.

Yes. I will just say, last closing thing. As Dani mentioned, the VC in the room most likely, hopefully they're a decision maker. Hopefully they're a GP, someone who can write a check. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're a more junior associate.

But no matter what, everything that you're doing is equipping the VC who you're speaking to to go back to their team to sell why the pool of capital should go towards you. And so like she said, having that deck ready, prepared, super compelling, having even a quick blurb that you put in addition to the deck that you send that they can forward along to their colleagues, or even forward along to other excellent seed or pre-seed investors is a great call to have ready to go.

When you do start your company, here's how you reach Chelcie.

Yes. You can reach out to me. I think this is my Twitter, my X, but also my email is ctaylor@notablecap.com. Feel free, as I said, to cold outreach.

Can't wait to see what you build. Have a great day.

All of you guys. Thanks, everyone.